Master Didi

the miner Rodrigo Moura, former curator of Neighborhood Museum, from New York, and from Malba, in Buenos AiresUpon returning to Brazil after a period of work abroad, he made his comeback to the national scene centered around a work he has been researching for a long time: that of the Bahian artist. Master Didi (1917-2013). Alongside Ayrson HeraclitusMoura, also a curator and artist, focused on the work and area of ​​influence of the work of Maximiliano dos Santos Deoscoreds, Mestre Didi, to arrive at what he considers the largest exhibition ever made about the work of the celebrated artist-priest of Candomblé, with 50 works covering five decades of Didi's production.

Spread across three floors, the exhibition opened for guests on Tuesday evening, July 7th, at Itaú Cultural (Avenida Paulista, 149), where it will remain until July 5th. Arte!Brasileiros spoke with curator Rodrigo Moura:

art!✱ – How do we view the works of Mestre Didi? Because, just as there is a ritualistic development in his work, a cultural phenomenon, he also develops forms, art, and there is a discourse. Is it an artistic, sociological, anthropological fact?

Rodrigo Moura "He's certainly an artist. And, being an artist, he speaks volumes about us, about the fact that Brazilian art and culture aren't defined solely by one type of artist, as formulated in Romanticism, in the 18th and 19th centuries in the major white European centers, right? That's part of our process, but it's not our entire process. And in that sense, Mestre Didi is a great Brazilian artist and a figure in the global African diaspora. He has an enormous participation in this diaspora in art. So, I think Mestre Didi is viewed with the same eyes as any great artist. And one sees him to learn something that perhaps wasn't known before. Because that's how it is with any art form, right? Art is a language; you learn, you have levels of influence. You see it, then you see it again, and so on. It could be the European canon or something outside of it."

art!✱ – But is there a diversity of languages ​​within Didi's work that allows for this conclusion, or is this also a white European or Western expectation?

– His work comes from the Yoruba legacy. And the Yoruba legacy is part of humanity's experience. So, I think that's it. There's not much more to debate about it. I think the way he transforms, I mean, in our Western eyes, that into art, is a great contribution to our field. Now, in terms of Yoruba culture, perhaps there isn't such a distinction, is there? We know that one of the great legacies of Western thought is the compartmentalization of knowledge, the separation itself. The separation between art and spirituality, or art and science, and things like that which, in other cultures, don't work that way, right? Now, I think that (Master Didi's) work exists beyond its own borders, like any work of art.

art!✱ – You mentioned that this could be the biggest exhibition of master Didi's career that we've seen so far. Why?

– First, it brings together a very expressive set of sculptures that puts Didi in perspective by engaging him with artists who were his contemporaries within the framework of Afro-modernism, right, Afro-Brazilian modernism. Artists who explored the language of abstraction from an African visual perspective, not a European one. Furthermore, it repositions his cultural and ethical legacy for the 21st century, in a society that is deeply fractured by racism, but which, in some way, seeks to heal this fracture. This is undoubtedly a mission for Brazilian society in the 21st century. In this sense, I think it's an exhibition that puts Didi at the forefront, as a great emissary of tradition but, at the same time, a great visionary of all the work that can be done in society, of what art can do in society.

art!✱ – There's something curious about this space. The indigenous thinker Ailton Krenak held an exhibition here, and he said he was surprised by the number of his works they had managed to gather here. Because he has a vision, from the indigenous tradition, that the artwork doesn't exactly have a market value. But that's not the case with Master Didi, right? He also understood the artworks as a market phenomenon, didn't he?

– Of course. In fact, this regime of visibility that Didi sought with his work was an intrinsic part of his strategy of intervention in culture. And he understood that clearly.

art!✱ – Type: if you are not seen, you do not exist.

"Well, if you really want to transform society, you need to use the spaces it offers, right? Within Yoruba culture, there's this concept of 'from the inside out and from the outside in.' And Didi knew how to use that; he knew how to enter the art world, create alliances with various agents within the art world, and use that status of art to talk about what mattered to him."

art!✱ – Whenever indigenous and Afro-Brazilian art is analyzed, a kind of stigma arises, that it is something popular, originating from a popular language. And with that, it is placed in a certain kind of niche. But Master Didi, in turn, had relationships with people who frequented so-called erudite circles, right? His own wife, right (Juana Elbein Santos, the celebrated Argentine anthropologist and researcher)? And Pierre Verger, and many others.

– And himself.

art!✱ – And he himself. Could one then say that there's nothing popular about his art, or would that be incorrect?

– I think your reasoning is interesting, especially the first part. The term "popular" is often used to racialize an artist, right? Here in the exhibition we have Aurelino dos Santos, Agnaldo dos Santos, Zé Adário, who are popular artists, meaning they are often self-taught. This is a common misconception. It's not an artist who attends an Academy of Fine Arts, a visual arts school, those means of legitimation and official recognition that transform a person. So, I think this is something that exists. You can reflect on this. Artists who come from other experiences, other learnings, and who, based on these experiences and learnings, create their works. In this case, it's quite evident how Candomblé plays this role, but it's actually a very erudite work. Because it's a work that reveals a very sophisticated and elaborate knowledge of that cultural and visual code. What I think happens in Brazil, historically, is that the so-called popular artist is often a Black or mixed-race artist, or marginalized by social origin; they are from the periphery, alcoholics, immigrants—in other words, everything that society pushes to the margins, and often we, due to a vice of origin, call it popular art. In the popular classes, access to formal education, which is a relatively recent thing in Brazil, access to university education is somewhat more democratic—I mean, all these issues are alive in your question. Which is very good, I think this discussion is healthy.

art!✱ – The perception we have today about Mestre Didi, and about many of these artists, is very recent, isn't it?

– More or less. Mestre Didi had a special room at the 1996 Biennial. So, it's not that recent. He already had 25, 30 years of experience. What's recent might be a market interest, something like that, but there have also been moments of interest, he's participated in exhibitions at Itaú, he's been at the Biennial, in galleries. What's recent, and perhaps this is a more productive path, is to think that the canon is broadening a bit, right? That just one idea of ​​a certain type of artist as a foundational artist in history is becoming weaker. This democratization of higher education that happened in Brazil with the Lula government, or a certain idea of ​​democratizing access to culture through the Ministry of Culture or even private institutions like Itaú itself, which invested a lot in this, means that this brought people into the conversation. And if someone enters this museum and doesn't see an Afro-descendant artist, it's a problem, you understand? This pressure also comes from society itself. Society generates this need for equity, to look at a cultural space, or the canon, call it what you will, that is a little more equitable, that is a little more like society.

art!✱ – One thing that stands out today is the growth of religious intolerance. In this sense, Candomblé is always a prime target. Does this type of approach help to combat it?

– Absolutely. I think that's a role of cultural institutions, to fight against gender intolerance, against gender violence, and against cultural and religious intolerance. So, I think it's perfect to highlight this by placing it in a space that is considered a space of distinction, because cultural institutions operate as spaces of distinction, highlighting what deserves to be seen, deserves to be studied, deserves to be visited, deserves to be discussed.
So this is fundamental to combating racism and violence. And this type of intolerance is, unfortunately, still common in Brazil.

art!✱ – Regarding the curation itself: there are about 50 works by Didi, about 130 works in total. Are there any new pieces among these? Because Didi produced quite a lot, right? And the curatorial work also consists of that, doesn't it? In revealing. Are there aspects of his work here that we're going to discover?

– I think one of the contributions we sought was precisely a more analytical approach to the development of his language. Looking at these more foundational sacred forms, such as the xaxará and the ibiri, these ritual implements and complements, and how this was revealed. At the same time, we managed to bring works from the 70s to the 2010s, at the very end of his career. One interesting thing is how he developed a set of animals during the latter part of his career. He made several zoomorphic sculptures, a kind of bestiary, which also denotes a kind of freedom on his part in relation to the things he did before – not because he stopped doing anything to do that, but you see that he is a living artist, and he was always expanding his repertoire and vocabulary. In short, there are works never seen since the 1996 Biennial, there is a large sculpture that is a scepter, which had never been exhibited before. And these dialogues, you know, for you to look at, for example, this totemic vocation in the constructive painting of Rubem Valentim (1922-1991), developing the emblems. If you study this in parallel with what Didi did in sculpture, it's very interesting to see. For example: Abdias Nascimento (1914-2011), who, like Didi, was always a great questioner of this idea of ​​racial democracy as a model for the inclusion of Afro-descendants in Brazilian society, artists who were really advancing this conversation around the fight against racism in Brazil.


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