Photographer, born in Cariri (Ceará) into a family with strong political involvement, Tiago Santana, 58, is one of the most renowned authors to document the life and culture of the northeastern backlands in recent decades. Whether in the award-winning series Blessed (2000) or in photobooks The Ground of Graciliano (2006) Assaré's Patativa (2010) and Luiz's sky (2014), the artist established himself as a reference in this field and was even one of only two Brazilians (along with Sebastião Salgado) to have a work (Sertao, 2011) published in the renowned French magazine Photo Poche.
That said, Santana has always been a cultural activist, as he likes to say, that is, an active individual in the defense and promotion of the arts in society, aware of their transformative potential in human, social and economic terms. The fact is that when his brother, Camilo Santana (PT), was elected governor of Ceará, at the end of 2014, Tiago decided to participate more closely in political life and used this space to fight for the cultural sector during his term – which ended up extending with Santana's reelection in 2018 and, subsequently, with the election of fellow PT member Elmano de Freitas, the current governor.
There were almost 10 years of informal work, that is, without a specific position, during which there were great advances in the area. Along with the quality of public education in Ceará (it is no wonder that Camilo Santana became minister of the department in the current federal administration), Tiago states that cultural policy in the state was also strengthened, with its budget even increasing during the pandemic. Culture reached more people with the creation of new, cutting-edge facilities not only in the capital, Fortaleza, but in other areas of the state.
To manage them, in 2021 the Mirante Institute of Culture and Art, a Social Organization (OS) that Tiago helped found and which he took over as director in 2023, after the initial management of lawyer Lara Vieira. Just like the historic Instituto Dragão do Mar (a pioneering OS in the country, created in 1998), Mirante became responsible for some of the 27 public facilities of the Ceará Department of Culture (Secult-CE). These are the Cariri Cultural Center Servulo Esmeraldo, a huge complex in the city of Crato, the Ceará Image and Sound Museum (MIS) and the Estação das Artes, both in Fortaleza. The station houses different facilities: the Pinacoteca do Ceará, the João Felipe Railway Museum, the Ceará Design Center (KUYA) and the AlimentaCE Market. The Mirante Institute, which has a total of 464 directly hired employees, also manages the Sobrado Dr. José Lourenço, a historic building in the center of the capital.
In interview with arte!brasileiros, Santana spoke about his career, his work as head of Mirante, the need to “decentralize” investments in culture in the country and about a political moment in which the rise of the extreme right (which demonstrated great strength in the electoral dispute in Fortaleza this year) represents a threat to the country in the most varied areas, including culture. “The tight result was a great warning, we have a lot to do. We cannot, in fact, wait for the next election to start to think about the matter. And so risk again a project that we understand to be the best human project, a project for society. Because here [in Fortaleza] the discussion was not only about which party was the best, the discussion was between barbarism and civilization”, he states.
Read the full interview below.
art!✱ – Tiago, before we talk about your work at Instituto Mirante, I would like to ask you to briefly tell us about the path that led you from photography to cultural management. In an interview with the newspaper O Povo, you said that you have always been a cultural activist. Can you tell us a little more?
Thank you for calling me a photographer. I've been lacking in that regard, since nowadays everyone only asks me about management. But, joking aside, this issue of cultural activism is important. It has to do with my photography too, but it goes back even further. I come from a militant family. My father [Eudoro Santana], who is 88 years old today, was and continues to be a political activist. And a dreamer. So I learned this at home. My father was arrested during the military dictatorship, my mother was also always involved in the fight for democracy in Brazil, and from an early age, my brothers and I learned from them that we must make our contribution to the transformation of the place where we live, of the country, in short. And each one contributes in the way they can. Some in the field of party politics, others in the field of art itself, where politics can also be done.
By the way, as an aside, I was born in Crato (in Cariri) because of the military dictatorship, because my father went there to escape the dictatorship, since it was a place of refuge at that time. Just like some people who went abroad, my father went to live in Cariri. And he ended up staying for decades. So, I joke that the only good thing about the dictatorship – which actually has nothing good – was that I was born in Cariri. Because it defined my life, you know? It is a kind of synthesis of the Northeast, since it is a confluence of several states in the Northeast. That region is very rich culturally, in every aspect, and I think that having spent my childhood and adolescence there was very decisive in my view of the country. And, at the same time, the visual experience of that place is also very impactful.
And my father also had a relationship with audiovisual, he used Super 8 and had a laboratory where he developed his family photographs. That's when I obviously got involved. So, basically, photography was a bit of a pretext to be able to record that place, based on the experience I had lived there. So, in short, I ended up making a book called Blessed, which is very important to me and, I think, is important in documentary photography, as a record of that place. Later I made a book with the great journalist Audálio Dantas (1929-2018), who is The Ground of Graciliano, dedicated to the work of Graciliano Ramos, and another with Audálio himself called the Louis' sky, with the universe of Gonzaga – who was born in Exu (PE), right on the border with Crato. I also wrote a book about the poet Patativa do Assaré, with the researcher Gilmar de Carvalho, and I also had a series of my works published in Photo Poche, a French collection that was so important in my education. I speak of the importance of being in it not to boast, but because the collection looks very little beyond Europe and the United States. I see that this is now changing a little, with other Latin American names, but it is still not enough.
art!✱ –But then tell us how the management thing came about, the approach to politics in a more institutional sense…
I ended up getting more directly involved in the issue of cultural management, especially in the last ten years. And there's no need to hide it, of course it was largely due to my relationship with my brother, who became the state governor. I wasn't involved in the management, in the sense of having a position, but I couldn't help but contribute, I got very involved. I was already an activist in the cultural field, I was always at the forefront of the issues here, supporting various governments, defending the importance and relevance of culture. But it was more directly in these last ten years that I couldn't stay away.
It's like this: if I stayed out, without helping, they would criticize, saying that I had the opportunity and didn't help. If I stayed in, they would complain just the same. Between the two, I decided to contribute, even if it was voluntary, by giving ideas, suggesting, fighting for the budget. Since we're talking about activism... well, I think it was a commitment, to contribute at a time when I could be heard more. And when I say "I", I mean something more collective, a group of people who could somehow get involved.
And Ceará has always been way ahead of its time in cultural management. For example, the first Secretariat of Culture in Brazil was created in Ceará [in 1966]. We also have the first OS, the Dragão do Mar Institute. In other words, there is an experience of being at the forefront of cultural policies, and I'm not just talking about now. But I think the last decade was very important in consolidating Ceará as a place that, even in a very difficult time, when even the Ministry of Culture was abolished, Ceará was a beacon, it resisted. And it was perhaps one of the only states that did not stop investing in culture even during the pandemic years.
And we know how complex this is. A poor state obviously has to make choices when managing a limited budget. Anyway, it's very complex, but there was an understanding about it. Because perhaps culture is the most transversal portfolio of a government, you know? Or one of them. When you invest in culture, you're investing in violence prevention, you're investing in more education, you're investing in more health – because culture is also health – in public safety, in youth, and so on. And I always joke: when they talk about investing in infrastructure, in building roads, with billions of reais, then everything is fine. But when they talk about investing substantial money in culture, then they think it's absurd, right?
art!✱ – As if it were something superfluous…
Yes. And when I say that there was an understanding, I'm not saying that none of this was easy, even though the governor had this understanding. After all, the time in government is a very complex time. Any decision, until it reaches the base, goes through several layers, bureaucracy, bidding processes, etc., it's not easy. But, as an activist, my role was to fight for us to move forward. And I can say with confidence that I think Ceará has made a lot of progress in terms of cultural policies. And even in terms of the institutionality of the Department of Culture itself. In 50 years, it had never held a public tender. And this administration did this for the first time. So it wasn't just a question of budget, it was about thinking about the structure of Secult itself to manage and execute it.
And, of course, I'm talking a little about my experience, but it was a collective effort, involving many actors, and my role was to fight, to pressure, to remind people that culture is strategic, including economically, something that is rarely remembered. The GDP of culture in Brazil is greater than the GDP of the automobile industry. But we don't have the same narrative and discourse that the industry, the market, and economists have, right? And it's our homework to show the importance and impact generated by investing in culture. And this has to be reflected in the budget. In Ceará, during this period we're talking about, the state budget for culture increased fivefold, even during the most difficult times like the pandemic. And we want it to increase even more, of course.
And within this, there was also an increase in investment in the infrastructure of Secult's cultural facilities, which are managed by the Dragão do Mar and Mirante institutes, in a model that is considered very successful. The government sets the direction for the policy, but the OS manages and executes it. This makes things easier, right? There are still some facilities managed directly by Secult, but the idea of Secretary Luiza Cela – who has also been an activist in the cultural field for many years – is that all these facilities be managed by social organizations. And this is not a criticism of the capacity of the public service, nor any of that anti-State rhetoric, quite the opposite, but a perception that it has been effective, that it is a way to work together, improve, simplify.
art!✱ – Especially because an OS is non-profit and works directly for the government…
Yes, and I think the State can never give up its role, because culture is also a right, just like education and health. So the State has to provide resources for culture. But I think the OS can also help increase this budget, also raising funds from the private sector. To be able to have more programming, more things. But the State should never lose its leading role, it is fundamental as a guarantor of this essential right, which is the right to culture.
And another thing I would like to highlight is that during this administration, we also decentralized the cultural facilities of the state of Ceará, which were all in Fortaleza, for the first time. For example, the Cariri Cultural Center, which is a kind of Dragão do Mar [a traditional cultural center in Fortaleza, managed by the IDM] in the interior of the state. If you think about the importance of Dragão do Mar, created in 1999, it has transformed and continues to transform several generations. So I imagine in Cariri, where the center will be three years old, imagine in 10 or 20 years, how it will have impacted generations of people who had the opportunity to have a cutting-edge facility like this in their lives.
It is a very high-quality facility, which I would say is unlike any other here in Fortaleza, because it is a “cultural park center”, it has an incredible theater that is almost finished, a planetarium, artistic residences with apartments to receive guests, and rooms for workshops. In short, it has characteristics of this relationship between nature, science, technology and culture that is very interesting. Look, I am from there and I would love to have been born in a time when there was a place like this. And that is what motivates us, you know? This impact on people's lives, that is very beautiful. You go there on a Sunday and there are 5 thousand people flowing through that space, whether in the park, watching exhibitions, watching a show, or taking a workshop. Sometimes people in government departments only see numbers and spreadsheets, but they don't understand this beauty.
And in these places that lack such facilities, the impact is huge. There are people who would never go to a museum, but are in the park having a picnic and end up going. Or maybe there is a person who would never go to a concert or a play, but is in the park and ends up going. I am surprised every time I go there. Initially, we didn't think there would be so much participation and occupancy, but things have changed, we had to have more teams, more budget. Thousands of people have been occupying and wanting more, this has been very beautiful. And it's not just people from Crato, it's regional, it attracts people from the entire region. And it's very democratic, with people from all social classes living together.
arte!✱ – Keeping in mind Cariri, I wanted to ask you to tell us a little more about the other facilities managed by Mirante. What are they and how has working with them been?
Starting with the Museum of Image and Sound, which is obviously very special to me because of my relationship and commitment to image, the MIS is almost 45 years old. It already existed, but it was a very sad place to see, without adequate spaces and technical reserves. It was a building that had historical importance for the city, but it was in need of renovation. In short, there was no MIS like we should have, and so it was built with a state-of-the-art structure.
The Estação das Artes is a large complex where we have the Pinacoteca do Ceará, which was a demand and a dream of many years in the artistic field. The State Government has a very important collection, but it was in a complicated condition. The only technical reserve that the State had was that of the Dragão do Mar Cultural Center, which is over 20 years old and was no longer in a position to receive this collection. So the Pinacoteca is here not only for the enjoyment part, because of the importance of having adequate spaces to mount large exhibitions and cover large projects, but also to safeguard and care for this cultural and economic asset that is the collection.
So, the Pinacoteca and the MIS were created with technical reserves that were adequate for their areas, considering what already exists and also future collections. It was a great investment and without a shadow of a doubt – it’s not just me saying this, but the experts who come to visit – it is the best technical reserve of a public museum in the country. In terms of its size, its quality…
The complex also houses the Railway Museum – remembering that this used to be the João Felipe Railway Station –, a specific space dedicated to the memory and railway heritage of Ceará; there is also the Design Center (KUYA), which is related to the fact that Fortaleza is an international city of design, even with UNESCO certification, and which aims to connect local design with that of the rest of Brazil, Latin America, and the world. And it is a place to think about design in a broad way, including politically, since it is present in everything in our lives.
And finally, the station itself ended up becoming a place for fairs and, especially, for music. This was not even planned, but it happened and today I can't imagine Fortaleza without this music venue. Shows for a maximum of 2 or 3 thousand people, especially because it is a listed heritage site. And, lastly, there is the gastronomy market, also in the complex. Today we have a temporary occupation, but six restaurants are being set up there permanently by next year. Ceará is also one of the few states in the country that has a gastronomy law, and we want to value this, gastronomy as an axis of cultural policy.
art!✱ – I mean, it’s a very diverse space. And Secult is also there, right?
Yes. This project was a partnership with IPHAN (National Institute of Historic and Artistic Heritage), because part of this space was previously owned by the State. Then, the State transferred it, restored it, renovated it and built it there. In fact, the headquarters of IPHAN is now located in the complex, as is the headquarters of the Department of Culture.
Incidentally, one detail about these three facilities (Station, MIS and Centro do Cariri) is that, coincidentally, they were all listed buildings, with important historical heritage to be preserved. And all of them have parts restored, preserved, added to modern buildings, which could complement the architectural ensemble. It is about respecting history, which is very important, and bringing modernity to the present. We invest a lot in technology.
Once again, when we arrived at a meeting with the “economists”, so to speak, to decide the budget, they asked why so much money was being spent on technology. “Why does the MIS need to have an immersive room?”, they would say. And we know it’s expensive, but it’s important. When you’re going to build a hospital, don’t you need to put in the most technological and advanced things? Yes. And you need money for that, don’t you? So why does it have to be different in culture? They think you can always put in what’s so-so, the least bad. No, we have to do the best. But that’s not easy to understand… I even think that part of my gray hairs were because of these battles.
And today, in the MIS conservation laboratory, for example, we have equipment that no other place in Brazil has. Because we believe that when you are going to treat a public collection, to take care of memory, it is important to have the best equipment.
art!✱ – I actually saw an interview with you talking about the economic importance of the cultural sector and in it you said that part of the elite in Ceará values the MoMA in New York or the Louvre in Paris a lot, but they don’t realize the importance and socioeconomic impact that the Pinacoteca do Ceará can have, for example. What do you think this is due to and how can we change this view?
Just look, many businesspeople from Ceará are patrons of facilities in São Paulo, such as the Pinacoteca or MASP, but they forget that we now have the Pinacoteca do Ceará. Obviously, we have a role in changing this mindset a little and attracting them to see and understand the space. Anyone who comes to the Pinacoteca today and gets to know the place will see that it is in no way inferior to any facility in Brazil. And I say this even thinking about the world, because it is a well-kept place, with all the necessary museum characteristics and a qualified team. Of course, a cultural center is never born ready, it adapts over time, but it is born great in this sense. With its feet on the ground, but understanding its importance and relevance.
Or even thinking about the center of Cariri. Because it is in the interior, can't you have a gallery of the same quality as the Pinacoteca de São Paulo or MASP? Well, there is one there. So there is a very mistaken thinking that needs to be changed. And of course this was a clash here in Ceará as well, but I think the government understood it and formed a partnership in this sense.
arte!✱ – Returning a little to the subject of decentralization of facilities, based on what you said about having quality spaces not only in Fortaleza, I would like to take the opportunity to also talk about the need to decentralize investments in culture nationwide, remembering that much of the money, major events and largest institutions are still concentrated in the Southeast, especially in a Rio-SP axis. Do you see this situation changing?
Yes, this is an important issue. And here I even make an observation. When we talk about decentralization, it depends on the point of view of where this centrality is. Because when we imagine Brazil, the centrality is always São Paulo, Rio, at most Belo Horizonte. And Brazil is not São Paulo and Rio – I love both, it’s not about that. But we should invert this logic a little. Just like when we talk about center and periphery…
art!✱ – And do you think that the State of Ceará is setting an example of what can be done in other places in Brazil?
I think so, that our case draws attention to this. Right now, for example, there is a very interesting movement also taking place in Pará, with the history of the Amazon Biennial. And, in fact, a large meeting of Latin American managers just took place there. Finally, the COP conference itself going there… I think these movements need to be made and I think Ceará has made a contribution in this sense. I even made a provocation to the Moreira Salles Institute itself, which is located between Rio and São Paulo, that they should open a headquarters here in Fortaleza, also because they have this vision of a broader Brazil. So I do think that we have helped to build and understand that Brazil is very large, it is a continental country, very diverse, and that it needs to account for some of these diversities – cultural, linguistic, ethnic, gender… the diversity of voices.
art!✱ – Speaking of which, it is notable in the programming of the Mirante facilities a concern with issues linked to the northeastern identity, the appreciation of regional culture, and also issues linked to issues of race, gender, etc. Is looking at historically marginalized or minority groups an axis of the institute's work?
Without a doubt. I think that in the Brazil we live in today, in the world we live in, we can no longer go without addressing these issues and agendas. It is a fight that we have to have, and the Mirante Institute was born with this commitment. I think it was the first OS that was born, for example, with specific advisory services focused on these areas, that is, an advisory service for affirmative action policies and an advisory service that deals with the territory. We have qualified teams and people who work on this.
There is no point in implementing a facility like Estação das Artes in the city center, in a complex area, where there is a community next door that has a serious issue with drug trafficking and violence, and not working in dialogue and together with them. The community is not a strange being that arrives there. On the contrary, you are the strange being that is arriving. So this dialogue with the community, with the territory, I think this is something that, from the beginning, we have had in the institution's own thinking.
Furthermore, the teams hired by the institution itself have enormous diversity, with trans people, black people, indigenous people, a high percentage of women… Anyway, this is also important, because it is not enough to just talk the talk. The debt we owe to Brazilian society, to these various minority groups, is very great. So we have to be concerned about this, whether in the notices or in the thinking about the exhibitions, workshops, shows and so on.
And we know how much this generates conflicts. In this pro-Bolsonaro camp, for example, we are often bombarded because of a notice that will work, for example, on the issue of trans people. Because society is still very prejudiced. We are, right? And I say we, I include myself too, because many times we notice a word we say, a gesture we make... and we need to be aware of this.
And there are accessibility issues, which I think Mirante is also innovative in this regard. We have accessibility at various levels, with specialists hired from within the CLT staff, and a concern is with exhibitions, shows, in short, all cultural activities. In short, there are several concerns, thinking of ways to contribute to the innovation of public cultural management, in how to build mechanisms that also allow for more democratic access at various levels.
art!✱ – Well, we’ve been talking about positive things so far, but it’s impossible not to also think that we’ve just had a very disputed election in Fortaleza, in which the defeated candidate (Bolsonaro’s André Fernandes, from the PL) had a very high percentage of votes, presenting a very different vision of politics and culture from the one we’re talking about. Anyway, doesn’t this strengthening of the far right also represent a threat to the cultural field in the State of Ceará?
Yes, I think we have to be alert and strong all the time. Because this hasn't happened, it's there. This discovery that happened now [on the day of the interview, the report on the coup plot had been revealed], about this faction, a criminal thing... these people should be in jail immediately. It's so serious. And this hasn't happened. Because this example of André Fernandes has to do with a constructed narrative. A young man, from the field of communication, who was a YouTuber, knows how to communicate well, created a narrative that he is the change and so on. And we have to be very careful. Culture played an important role in this election, including in bringing politics closer to the youth, especially. Because I think we have a generation that doesn't know, didn't go through, doesn't even understand what the military dictatorship was like. That's why they keep spitting, saying that there was no dictatorship. And there's also a generation that didn't even experience the change that Lula made in his first term. In other words, these are people who need to be brought closer, right? And this election was a big wake-up call, because it wasn't easy, showing that he was the worst candidate, saying absurd things...
art!✱ – Like Pablo Marçal in Sao Paulo…
Exactly. So I think we have a lot to do. We cannot, as a left, wait until two years from now for the next election to start to think about the matter and work on it. And so risk again a project that we understand to be the best human project, a project for society. Because here the discussion was not just about which party is the best, the discussion was between barbarism and civilization.
And that culture and education, especially in our case, can contribute a lot to our ability to communicate with these people, especially the younger ones. And we cannot take risks, because we know what would have happened to the city of Fortaleza in the cultural field if the other candidate had won.
What will be good now is that we will have a city government [Evandro Leitão, from the PT] that will strengthen and enhance the project we have already implemented. Because it is one thing to make a political decision, allocate the necessary resources, and create a quality cultural infrastructure. This is very important. But, more important, or just as important, is to maintain this. Maintain investments, not only in the physical aspect, in the structure, but also in the programming and in the deliveries to the public. This is another challenge as well.
art!✱ – And are there also partnerships with the federal government?
Yes, this is also important, because now we have the Ministry of Culture (MinC) on our side, which had been abolished [during the Bolsonaro administration]. So, all of these investments made in the State of Ceará in recent years were made with money from the State Treasury itself. There is not a single penny from the federal government. And now we have the possibility of forming partnerships, of expanding this with the MinC, which is very good. Obviously, the ministry has also undergone a process of reconstruction, but I think the next two years will be very fruitful for us.
So we are moving forward. Ceará has made a lot of progress in the last ten years, but it is a long road ahead, right? When I say that the budget for culture has increased a lot, we still want a lot more. And then the deliveries will be greater, the number of people served will be greater. We know that there are limits, but we will continue to fight for this.
As for the facilities managed by Mirante, it is important to remember that they are very new. And they are not born ready, right? If they were born ready, they would be dead. And they are growing and being built through dialogue. Not only with governments, but I am talking about a broader approach, with cultural producers, artists, the community, and territories. Everyone contributes in some way to this construction.
